Conversation 3 — "talk with Zbigniew Blocki" — Thursday 4 June 2020
The third recorded meeting, full version 1 h 52 min, in the NCN director's office. NN is confronted by NCN Director Prof. Z.B. and Piotr Maciąg — on the pretext of "discussing NN's future at NCN", Z.B. dissects her email correspondence with Prof. M.D. (Wrocław University of Science and Technology). Two key threads emerge from the recording: (1) during a business lunch at NCN, NN was allegedly subjected to sexual assault by Prof. M.D. (digital penetration), after which Prof. M.D. is said to have treated NN's refusal as grounds for retaliation; (2) Z.B. — according to NN — reframes the episode as her "personal matter" rather than taking institutional action. The filename (3rd-talk-with-Zbigniew-Blocki) identifies the interlocutor.
| Topic | Description |
|---|---|
| Date | Thursday 4 June 2020 |
| Participants | NN, Dr Witold Kilarski, Piotr Maciąg (head at NCN), Prof. Zbigniew Błocki (NCN Director) |
| Duration | 1 h 52 min 27 s |
| Evidentiary importance | Key evidence regarding the alleged sexual assault on NN by Prof. M.D. (digital penetration) — an act said to have occurred during a business lunch at NCN. Z.B., according to NN's account, was informed but, instead of an institutional response, suggested it was NN's "personal matter". |
A. "The click happened when you opened up" — shifting the responsibility
Reading the email exchange, Director Z.B. characterises Prof. M.D. as "very principled" and states that the "click" with Prof. M.D. happened "the moment you opened up." In NN's view, this shifts responsibility for the conflict from the alleged perpetrator onto the person harmed.
"I don't fully understand Drąg's motivation. But reading your exchange, it strikes me he's a very principled guy — and evidently, the click happened at the moment when you opened up."
B. Disclosure — intimate boundary violation of NN by Prof. M.D. (~99 min)
Dr Witold Kilarski openly addresses what — according to NN's account — Prof. M.D. allegedly did during a business lunch. The passage is evidentiary in relation to the allegations against Prof. M.D. The quote retains the profanities in the form spoken by the participant, as it is part of the authentic conversational record.
"Some prick, fuck, got offended because he couldn't, fuck, fuck you. So he stuck a finger into your vagina, right? And we're supposed to apologise to him?"
"I didn't talk about putting a finger into the vagina. Maybe not in such detail, but I did say he proposed sex and I refused — right?"
"She said he stuck a finger into her vagina. For God's sake. So now apologise to him on your knees, preferably. (…) Fucking hell, fuck. What madness."