Recording 5 (20 March 2021) — one conversation in two parts
Recording 5 is one continuous conversation from 20 March 2021, saved — for technical reasons — in two files (7a and 7b). During this conversation Dr. Witold Kilarski played back to NN her own NCN emails from the period when she was leaving NCN.
Jolanta Kilarska ("Jola") — Dr. Kilarski's spouse — also took part in the conversation. The three-way nature of the exchange allows one to follow how NN reacts when confronted with her own emails and how she comments on the actions of NCN's management (Błocki, Drąg, Mudelsee) from the perspective of a former NCN employee.
Note: Part A (the smaller file) is the beginning of the conversation; Part B (the larger file) is its direct continuation. For continuity and context, we recommend listening to both files in A → B order.
Audio version: The current version of this recording (7a + 7b) has been replaced with the version from the main folder of originals — higher-quality audio than the one originally published.
A. Confronting NN with her own NCN correspondence
A three-way conversation — Dr. Witold Kilarski, NN and Jolanta Kilarska — in which Kilarski reads back fragments of NN's NCN emails from the period of her employment. The confrontation is evidentiary in character: NN, now a former employee, comments on the content of her own messages, including those in which she described the NAWA application affair and management's conduct.
B. Falsified reviews at NCN — the Mudelsee case and "14 identical reviews"
The conversation returns to the falsification of reviews at NCN: the scale, according to NN's findings, was 14 identical (copy-paste) reviews uncovered within one funding programme. The recording offers a later, more orderly commentary by NN on those discoveries (after her departure from NCN), in contrast with her spontaneous statements of August 2020.
C. Unequal treatment of researchers and conflicts of interest in the NCN Council
NN also addresses unequal treatment of researchers in grant evaluation (referring to specific cases she knew from her work in the Control Department) and alleged conflicts of interest within the NCN Council. Her reasoning is referential — she invokes cases which, in her view, should have led to disciplinary action.
D. Internal NCN reactions to the disclosed irregularities
NN describes the internal reactions to her audits and discoveries: from quiet warnings, through attempts to shift responsibility, to — by her account — disciplinary measures aimed at her when she refused to drop her findings. This material rounds out the institutional picture documented in the other 2020 recordings.